Author Topic: Are games an art?  (Read 12972 times)

Offline Mr.PowPow

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Are games an art?
« on: May 02, 2012, 11:09:13 PM »
Ico and Shadows of the Colossus are two very underrated games. If I had to choose any game to win the debate of "Is gaming an art?" I would chose those two, they are very beautiful games. In looks and in story.
They are kind of well known, but not universally loved like they should be.
 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 07:25:31 PM by NekoJonez » »

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 10:21:37 AM »
Ico and Shadows of the Colossus are two very underrated games. If I had to choose any game to win the debate of "Is gaming an art?" I would chose those two, they are very beautiful games. In looks and in story.
They are kind of well known, but not universally loved like they should be.
 
Yes gaming is an art. But it's more the graphics alone.

Offline NekoBot

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 01:47:25 PM »
Ico and Shadows of the Colossus are two very underrated games. If I had to choose any game to win the debate of "Is gaming an art?" I would chose those two, they are very beautiful games. In looks and in story.
They are kind of well known, but not universally loved like they should be.
 
Yes gaming is an art. But it's more the graphics alone.

Final fantasy often makes great games shadowed...

Offline Zer0 da Shadow

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 03:32:06 PM »
Ico and Shadows of the Colossus are two very underrated games. If I had to choose any game to win the debate of "Is gaming an art?" I would chose those two, they are very beautiful games. In looks and in story.
They are kind of well known, but not universally loved like they should be.
Ico Most defiantly falls into these category, out of all the games i can think of it is the one that completly Fell under the raider in Last Gen gaming.

Also i see the Mother series being throw around alot and i must disagree with that. You Must remember that Mother 1 and 3 were never released in the US but had HUGE Critical Acclaim and popularity in Japan. When Earthbound came out it wasn't as popular (at the time) and stayed that way until titles like Final Fantasy VII made JRPG's mainstream. But now Earthbound has become pretty popular.

Offline Mr.PowPow

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 04:20:28 PM »
Ico and Shadows of the Colossus are two very underrated games. If I had to choose any game to win the debate of "Is gaming an art?" I would chose those two, they are very beautiful games. In looks and in story.
They are kind of well known, but not universally loved like they should be.
Yes gaming is an art. But it's more the graphics alone.
You're implying that graphics alone make gaming an art? or make an artistic game? I must greatly disagree. Its what the game symbolizes and what its message is that makes it art. Sure the way the game looks plays an important factor, but its an equal balance of grace and beauty that makes it shine. I mean by those standards, the latest Final Fantasy's would be art due to their beautiful graphics and style, but sadly its story is lackluster and thats why the news ones will never be "Art". Play Ico and Shadow of the Colossus and you will understand.

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 04:24:13 PM »
Ico and Shadows of the Colossus are two very underrated games. If I had to choose any game to win the debate of "Is gaming an art?" I would chose those two, they are very beautiful games. In looks and in story.
They are kind of well known, but not universally loved like they should be.
Yes gaming is an art. But it's more the graphics alone.
You're implying that graphics alone make gaming an art? or make an artistic game? I must greatly disagree. Its what the game symbolizes and what its message is that makes it art. Sure the way the game looks plays an important factor, but its an equal balance of grace and beauty that makes it shine. I mean by those standards, the latest Final Fantasy's would be art due to their beautiful graphics and style, but sadly its story is lackluster and thats why the news ones will never be "Art". Play Ico and Shadow of the Colossus and you will understand.

Err... I think you read over the "more" I said. And as retro gamer... an game is an art form... but the "art" of a game... Well, actually... It's how you look at it. Graphical designers see the graphics, music guys see the music... So yeah...

Offline Mr.PowPow

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 04:29:16 PM »
Ico and Shadows of the Colossus are two very underrated games. If I had to choose any game to win the debate of "Is gaming an art?" I would chose those two, they are very beautiful games. In looks and in story.
They are kind of well known, but not universally loved like they should be.
Yes gaming is an art. But it's more the graphics alone.
You're implying that graphics alone make gaming an art? or make an artistic game? I must greatly disagree. Its what the game symbolizes and what its message is that makes it art. Sure the way the game looks plays an important factor, but its an equal balance of grace and beauty that makes it shine. I mean by those standards, the latest Final Fantasy's would be art due to their beautiful graphics and style, but sadly its story is lackluster and thats why the news ones will never be "Art". Play Ico and Shadow of the Colossus and you will understand.

Err... I think you read over the "more" I said. And as retro gamer... an game is an art form... but the "art" of a game... Well, actually... It's how you look at it. Graphical designers see the graphics, music guys see the music... So yeah...
Nope, I didn't read over it, as I said "equal balance" in my post ;p
but didn't you think that even with things like Tetris and Pac-Man, the graphics could have been even worse and you wouldn't have cared? As its the feeling the game produces, rather than the look it shows. True, music is a cornerstone in successful games, I will admit. But like I said, its an equal balance of all things, when you obtain a game that is dominant in one or the other, it usually turns out pretty bad. Thats why I disagree that graphics is more important.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 04:31:01 PM by Mr.PowPow » »

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 04:39:48 PM »
Again, it's how you look at it. Yes, games are art to me... But it's more then the graphics... And I NEVER said that they need to be top notch... An anime style can do the trick too... Like take for example Okami. That is a beautiful game but is the best prettiest game of the market? I don't think so... It's getting close but HD and all... Yeah.

For me I look at the game as a whole... Does the game look nice, is the gameplay deep, is there a good story... Like elements that you look for in a movie or video... Everything needs to come together in one nice package. I once started to play a RPG ... I got bored because I found that the graphics were out of the theme.

Offline Mr.PowPow

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2012, 04:44:10 PM »
Again, it's how you look at it. Yes, games are art to me... But it's more then the graphics... And I NEVER said that they need to be top notch... An anime style can do the trick too... Like take for example Okami. That is a beautiful game but is the best prettiest game of the market? I don't think so... It's getting close but HD and all... Yeah.

For me I look at the game as a whole... Does the game look nice, is the gameplay deep, is there a good story... Like elements that you look for in a movie or video... Everything needs to come together in one nice package. I once started to play a RPG ... I got bored because I found that the graphics were out of the theme.
But are you not implying the same thing I was? That there needs to be an equal does of everything to make a game a piece of art? "everything needs to come together in one nice package".
Dominance of graphics= bad
Dominance of story=bad
Dominance of music= bad
But when you have an equal balance of all, then it mixes together and becomes an art form. The resulting game becoming something along the lines of Ico.

I think its strange to say that a game can be art if it has better graphics than it does story. Or better story and lackluster graphics. It needs to be balanced.

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2012, 04:48:11 PM »
I think its strange to say that a game can be art if it has better graphics than it does story. Or better story and lackluster graphics. It needs to be balanced.

Agreed. But I don't see how you can compare a story to the graphics... But you can say that the graphics don't set the tone that the story is trying to set.

Dominance of story=bad
Dominance of music= bad

But here I disagree.

Dominance of the story = visual novel
Dominance of the music = Music & rhythm games?

Offline NekoBot

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2012, 04:49:15 PM »
tO BE FAIR, i THINK ANYTHING CAN BE CALLED ART. i MEAN, THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO PUT i BEAMS (sorry caps lock) together and called that art.
Or, at a musium I went to was selling a white canvas (painted white) for $5000 because of its excellent art.... the actual meaning of 'art' could be losing meaning

Offline Mr.PowPow

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2012, 04:53:37 PM »
I think its strange to say that a game can be art if it has better graphics than it does story. Or better story and lackluster graphics. It needs to be balanced.

Agreed. But I don't see how you can compare a story to the graphics... But you can say that the graphics don't set the tone that the story is trying to set.

Dominance of story=bad
Dominance of music= bad

But here I disagree.

Dominance of the story = visual novel
Dominance of the music = Music & rhythm games?
Well on the first point, I think you understood what I was getting at anyway. So I won't delve further into that one.
On the second point however, there is some logic to that, I will admit. But I'm trying to get away from specialization games such as visual novels and music games. Those games are art in their own respect.
However for games that offer both story, gameplay and music in relatively high doses, but are unbalanced (such as RPG's, Action games and some Beat'em ups) I think there needs to be more of a balance.
Visual novels arn't really trying to have great gameplay, they knowingly focus on visual and music. Music and rythem games knowingly understand that they will have a rather unattractive story, but its made up in the gameplay section.
But for games that try to have all of it, then balance needs to be applied to make it gaming art.

Offline BloodcatNS

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2012, 04:56:25 PM »
Didja play Flower? Yeah. The story is poetic. Almost nonexistent, really. But it's still there. Despite that, the graphics and gameplay are top-notch.

Offline Mr.PowPow

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 05:00:17 PM »
Well in summary I will accept Jonez's point that other games that specialize in certain things, can be gaming art in their own respect. Given that they excel in their specialization.

But for games that try to excel in absolutely everything (which is a common trait for RPG's) then I believe that everything needs to be equal, otherwise the aspects of the game will be all fighting for dominance and it will ruin the flow of the game. Not noticeably, but you won't walk away with the feeling of "Hey, that game is like.....amazing...truly amazing".

Offline dark 5FVD

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 05:00:43 PM »
ofcourse it is an art. Not everybody nows how to make a decent game.

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 05:08:57 PM »
Well in summary I will accept Jonez's point that other games that specialize in certain things, can be gaming art in their own respect. Given that they excel in their specialization.

But for games that try to excel in absolutely everything (which is a common trait for RPG's) then I believe that everything needs to be equal, otherwise the aspects of the game will be all fighting for dominance and it will ruin the flow of the game. Not noticeably, but you won't walk away with the feeling of "Hey, that game is like.....amazing...truly amazing".

Yesh. That's my point. This is how I look at games. The game must give you a good feeling... no matter how it does it.
Heck, if you don't like a certain game like... for me, for example, it would be a (sorry) fighting game... But that doesn't mean that the fighting games are no art. I am just not a part of the audience that considers it as an art.

But lets prove our point by asking the question once... "What could make a game different from arts?"

Offline BloodcatNS

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2012, 05:21:09 PM »
Well in summary I will accept Jonez's point that other games that specialize in certain things, can be gaming art in their own respect. Given that they excel in their specialization.

But for games that try to excel in absolutely everything (which is a common trait for RPG's) then I believe that everything needs to be equal, otherwise the aspects of the game will be all fighting for dominance and it will ruin the flow of the game. Not noticeably, but you won't walk away with the feeling of "Hey, that game is like.....amazing...truly amazing".

Yesh. That's my point. This is how I look at games. The game must give you a good feeling... no matter how it does it.
Heck, if you don't like a certain game like... for me, for example, it would be a (sorry) fighting game... But that doesn't mean that the fighting games are no art. I am just not a part of the audience that considers it as an art.

But lets prove our point by asking the question once... "What could make a game different from arts?"
Diversity.

Well in summary I will accept Jonez's point that other games that specialize in certain things, can be gaming art in their own respect. Given that they excel in their specialization.

But for games that try to excel in absolutely everything (which is a common trait for RPG's) then I believe that everything needs to be equal, otherwise the aspects of the game will be all fighting for dominance and it will ruin the flow of the game. Not noticeably, but you won't walk away with the feeling of "Hey, that game is like.....amazing...truly amazing".
Being too equal in its factors can make the game bland. Cliche. Common. It has to have something that can divert itself from its own genre. That doesn't necessarily mean that it HAS to sacrifice one aspect or another.

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2012, 05:23:35 PM »
Being too equal in its factors can make the game bland. Cliche. Common. It has to have something that can divert itself from its own genre. That doesn't necessarily mean that it HAS to sacrifice one aspect or another.

Don't forget the implementation... Like some cliches are SO overused but each time they find a different way to implement it... But if it's just a copy from the standards... Yeah, indeed then you have a bland, cliche, common game.

Offline CarolineJohnson

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2012, 06:00:37 PM »
thatgamecompany. Nothing more needs to be said.

Offline Kiss x Miz

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2012, 06:50:43 PM »
Gaming isn't the same as making games. Your debate is invalid.

Offline Mr.PowPow

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2012, 06:54:38 PM »
Gaming isn't the same as making games. Your debate is invalid.
I'm sure if we changed the name of the thread, it could change that :p

Offline CarolineJohnson

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2012, 07:38:20 PM »
Gaming isn't the same as making games. Your debate is invalid.
Unless you're gaming to find what you want for your game you're making.

Or making a let's play.

Offline BloodcatNS

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2012, 03:09:30 PM »
thatgamecompany. Nothing more needs to be said.
Trudat

Offline Kiss x Miz

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2012, 04:36:38 PM »
thatgamecompany. Nothing more needs to be said.
Paradox Interactive
ArenaNet

have to be mentioned aswell :P

Offline CarolineJohnson

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Re: Are games an art?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2012, 09:05:45 PM »
thatgamecompany. Nothing more needs to be said.
Paradox Interactive
ArenaNet

have to be mentioned aswell :P

Were they actually trying to create art that is video games, though?

 

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