Author Topic: Console & handheld debate  (Read 21118 times)

Offline dark 5FVD

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2012, 02:23:48 PM »
Gameplay.

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2012, 02:25:41 PM »
Gameplay.
Well of course.
When your hardware isn't the best... You make good games by smart use of the hardware. Take the old gaming consoles for example... They had serious limitations... though the games are creative and fun... Why...? Since the made up new game mechanics to get around the limitations.

Offline dark 5FVD

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2012, 02:30:27 PM »
yeah but i still think the old games are somewhat better than the games of today

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2012, 02:31:51 PM »
yeah but i still think the old games are somewhat better than the games of today
I agree. The recent games try to be TOO much then they actually are. The focus too much on the selling point and things like that so that it looks and feels real but that the gameplay gets pushed aside. The variation on the market is ... well fading away.

Offline dark 5FVD

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2012, 02:33:28 PM »
jup. there are too many new gamers who keep complaining if the graphics aren't good or the storry but you have to respect the games because else you will end up like the call of duty series.

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2012, 02:35:39 PM »
jup. there are too many new gamers who keep complaining if the graphics aren't good or the storry but you have to respect the games because else you will end up like the call of duty series.
Plus, many studio's get ... well, negative stuff thrown at their direction when it wants to be too new... Okami... Perfect example of an epic underrated game.. It looks different but it's such a blast to play.

Offline BloodcatNS

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2012, 02:36:00 PM »
This one's ticking me off.

When a console's very powerful, all the people say it's "ALL ABOUT THE GRAPHICS" and "SO W34K IN G4M3PL4Y!!"

When a console is unique in terms of controls, they say "THE GRAPHICS SUX LOLOLOLOL!!11111"

....Jeez, people can't it be BOTH GREAT IN GRAPHICS AND GAMEPLAY?
Is it about the presentation or the gameplay...?
I rather play a badly designed game with high fun factors then a top notch designed game that is basically sort of playing itself.
So yes, I disagree with this. You're kind of saying that games that are good in graphics are weak in gameplay and games that are good in gameplay are likely to be bad in graphics.

Plus, many studio's get ... well, negative stuff thrown at their direction when it wants to be too new... Okami... Perfect example of an epic underrated game.. It looks different but it's such a blast to play.
Okami was underrated when it was a PS2 game. It got enough attention when it became a Wii game.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 02:38:19 PM by BloodcatNS » »

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2012, 02:42:53 PM »
Is it about the presentation or the gameplay...?
I rather play a badly designed game with high fun factors then a top notch designed game that is basically sort of playing itself.
So yes, I disagree with this. You're kind of saying that games that are good in graphics are weak in gameplay and games that are good in gameplay are likely to be bad in graphics.

In a way, yes I am saying that... Let me explain myself. I am under the impression that lately... It's more about the presentation and the looks of a game to sell at the stores then the gameplay. The core gameplay of most popular games is either... shooting OR exploring. The games where guns didn't came into play that much like the old Tomb Raider games where there were more puzzles and more creativity... those days are kinda over.

With "weak gameplay" I mean that the recent games do nothing really new but rather perfect existing formula's. Each Call Of Duty is just another setting but the same basic routine. As far as I know and have heard... What is the last innovation that COD did in their series itself?

I admit... I spoke too general. But my point is... The studio's lately don't experiment enough and new things ... you don't see those too often.

Offline BloodcatNS

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2012, 02:57:31 PM »
In a way, yes I am saying that... Let me explain myself. I am under the impression that lately... It's more about the presentation and the looks of a game to sell at the stores then the gameplay. The core gameplay of most popular games is either... shooting OR exploring.
I'd agree with the exploring part. There's way too many games that focus too much on open-world.


The games where guns didn't came into play that much like the old Tomb Raider games where there were more puzzles and more creativity... those days are kinda over.
Uncharted series, GoW series, FLOWER, JOURNEY, FLOW and Heavy Rain. People aren't looking hard enough for the games they're trying to find.

With "weak gameplay" I mean that the recent games do nothing really new but rather perfect existing formula's. Each Call Of Duty is just another setting but the same basic routine. As far as I know and have heard... What is the last innovation that COD did in their series itself?
So are the other games. Whether you're aware or not, Okami is almost (ALMOST) like an LoZ game. Add the part where the prota gets new powers often, then the aspect becomes that of Megaman X. Studios often combine aspects or features that, whether they are aware of it or not, come from other games. These "original" games are often just products of an unusual combination that, when presented, are actually quite pleasing.

I admit... I spoke too general. But my point is... The studio's lately don't experiment enough and new things ... you don't see those too often.
People don't search too hard. :|
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 03:01:45 PM by BloodcatNS » »

Offline iluvfupaburgers

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2012, 04:19:52 PM »
yeah but i still think the old games are somewhat better than the games of today
i believe you havent played NES. that thing was filled with shovelware. it was rare to find a good game out of all the crap that that console had. now a days its hard to find a bad game because the industry is actually more competitive. I agree there are really good games in old consoles but i also think that the nostalgia factor kicks in in that moment.


and about gameplay. gameplay is important but why change something that is perfect? we've seen pokemon games that are the same and still sell like crazy because people like it. call of duty is the same every year but still is the best selling game. so why would they change the formula if its still making them so rich
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 04:22:08 PM by iluvfupaburgers » »

Offline dark 5FVD

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2012, 05:48:38 PM »
Nop never played it and before last year never heard of it

Offline O:\msg

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2012, 08:31:20 PM »
Man, I love old games more than anyone, I still play them everyday, but new games are better. What NES game gives you the freedom of Fallout 3 or Skyrim? Wolfenstein 3D is shite next to MW3. Nostalgia plays a huge part in it and so does the console you own, if you don't have a PS3 you will never appreciate what games offer today. You like platformers like Super Mario Bros? Go play Rayman Origins and tell me it doesn't compare to Nintendo "fun" platformers.
Yeah some Nintendo games are fun, but there is a fucking shit load of shovelware and endless sequels like pokemon that have just ran them into the ground.

Let me ask you this: Why can't Nintendo put their games on a competitive console?
Because when people have to pay top price for sequels and shovelware to cover the costs they will go buy the proper good stuff from developers that are really trying to push forward the industry.

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2012, 08:34:57 PM »
Man, I love old games more than anyone, I still play them everyday, but new games are better. What NES game gives you the freedom of Fallout 3 or Skyrim? Wolfenstein 3D is shite next to MW3. Nostalgia plays a huge part in it and so does the console you own, if you don't have a PS3 you will never appreciate what games offer today. You like platformers like Super Mario Bros? Go play Rayman Origins and tell me it doesn't compare to Nintendo "fun" platformers.
Yeah some Nintendo games are fun, but there is a fucking shit load of shovelware and endless sequels like pokemon that have just ran them into the ground.

Let me ask you this: Why can't Nintendo put their games on a competitive console?
Because when people have to pay top price for sequels and shovelware to cover the costs they will go buy the proper good stuff from developers that are really trying to push forward the industry.

* Sighs *

So, it's not about having fun...? It's about having THE MOST POSSIBLE fun...? Sorry, but it's easy to see why a person would disagree here.

Offline O:\msg

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2012, 08:52:14 PM »
* Sighs *

So, it's not about having fun...? It's about having THE MOST POSSIBLE fun...? Sorry, but it's easy to see why a person would disagree here.
Not at all, why restrict fun? Why only give a little when better hardware allows more innovation and the ability to do everything better?
Newer games are better than old games, or people wouldn't keep buying them they would just keep on playing the NES.

Offline Kiss x Miz

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2012, 08:55:06 PM »
I prefer more freedom in my actions. Console.

Offline dark 5FVD

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2012, 08:55:29 PM »
Sorry SMG but I DON'T THINK that's not tottaly true. not all new games are better.

Offline O:\msg

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2012, 09:01:09 PM »
Sorry SMG but I DON'T THINK that's not tottaly true. not all new games are better.
Not all of course, but in general.
JRPG's are a good example of older been better, this gen has been particularly bad, its all about HD though, to have a huge non linear JRPG in HD is too expensive and would take too long.

Seriously though, developers should be pushing the limits of what they can, trying to push forward and get better! Not sticking to the tired old proven formula because it's safe.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 09:05:41 PM by msg » »

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2012, 10:17:31 PM »
* Sighs *

So, it's not about having fun...? It's about having THE MOST POSSIBLE fun...? Sorry, but it's easy to see why a person would disagree here.
Not at all, why restrict fun? Why only give a little when better hardware allows more innovation and the ability to do everything better?
Newer games are better than old games, or people wouldn't keep buying them they would just keep on playing the NES.
Same thing... Why "better"..?

Offline Swagmaster

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2012, 01:23:43 AM »
The only thing handhelds are better for, in my opinion, is JRPGs.

Did you ever play Call of Duty on DS or PSP?
Shitty as hell

FIFA, Madden or NBA on DS or PSP
So shitty they stopped making Madden after 09 and never had an NBA.

LBP on PSP?
Fuckin Nightmare

Handhelds can be useful, I'm not gonna lie. But they lack ability to do better, and that's why Id prefer consoles

Offline senpai_FisT

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2012, 01:34:45 AM »
However the limited power of handhelds can sometimes make devs do really clever stuff. Only sometimes though..

Offline O:\msg

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2012, 09:59:27 AM »
* Sighs *

So, it's not about having fun...? It's about having THE MOST POSSIBLE fun...? Sorry, but it's easy to see why a person would disagree here.
Not at all, why restrict fun? Why only give a little when better hardware allows more innovation and the ability to do everything better?
Newer games are better than old games, or people wouldn't keep buying them they would just keep on playing the NES.
Same thing... Why "better"..?
You know when people talk about the greatest games ever, they say OoT, FFVII etc? Well, is the fact that they JUST moved into 3D, giving gamers whole new areas of gaming and bringing gaming to a whole new level just a coincidence? No. It's because they made a huge leap FORWARD in technology and game design.

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2012, 10:02:07 AM »
* Sighs *

So, it's not about having fun...? It's about having THE MOST POSSIBLE fun...? Sorry, but it's easy to see why a person would disagree here.
Not at all, why restrict fun? Why only give a little when better hardware allows more innovation and the ability to do everything better?
Newer games are better than old games, or people wouldn't keep buying them they would just keep on playing the NES.
Same thing... Why "better"..?
You know when people talk about the greatest games ever, they say OoT, FFVII etc? Well, is the fact that they JUST moved into 3D, giving gamers whole new areas of gaming and bringing gaming to a whole new level just a coincidence? No. It's because they made a huge leap FORWARD in technology and game design.
I can agree with that. BUT, does that make a console always better then another one...?

According to me, it's not about the hardware but about the software. As far as I know... Your argument is actually in favor of Nintendo since they brought with all new console something totally new that brought that jump forward/

Offline O:\msg

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2012, 10:21:24 AM »
I can agree with that. BUT, does that make a console always better then another one...?

According to me, it's not about the hardware but about the software. As far as I know... Your argument is actually in favor of Nintendo since they brought with all new console something totally new that brought that jump forward/
No Nintendo are the last with everything. PS was using CD's when N64 was stuck on carts restricting what the devs could do. PS2 was using DVD's and gamecube was using tiny little discs that again restricted what they could do. Wii's hardware is really poor, its basically a upgraded gamecube and PS3 is using 50gb bluray discs and HD. The DS wasn't even the first handheld with stylus and touchscreen, they took it from another handheld that didn't attract developers. 3D has been around since god knows, at least the 1950's.

What I'm saying is, the more powerful, the more storage space, the more devs can do. They can still make the same game as on a Nintendo machine, but can add another 5 levels and do it in HD, because they have that option and don't have to restrict their games or creativity as much. The same with handheld vs console, they can make the exact same game, same gameplay, everything, but make it much bigger, better looking, more things to do, more stuff to see when they have that extra horsepower, but the "fun" gameplay can remain the same.

Offline NekoJonez

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2012, 10:28:06 AM »
I can agree with that. BUT, does that make a console always better then another one...?

According to me, it's not about the hardware but about the software. As far as I know... Your argument is actually in favor of Nintendo since they brought with all new console something totally new that brought that jump forward/
No Nintendo are the last with everything. PS was using CD's when N64 was stuck on carts restricting what the devs could do. PS2 was using DVD's and gamecube was using tiny little discs that again restricted what they could do. Wii's hardware is really poor, its basically a upgraded gamecube and PS3 is using 50gb bluray discs and HD. The DS wasn't even the first handheld with stylus and touchscreen, they took it from another handheld that didn't attract developers. 3D has been around since god knows, at least the 1950's.

What I'm saying is, the more powerful, the more storage space, the more devs can do. They can still make the same game as on a Nintendo machine, but can add another 5 levels and do it in HD, because they have that option and don't have to restrict their games or creativity as much. The same with handheld vs console, they can make the exact same game, same gameplay, everything, but make it much bigger, better looking, more things to do, more stuff to see when they have that extra horsepower, but the "fun" gameplay can remain the same.

Okay, I can agree somewhat with that.
But at the other hand... Sometimes it's not such a good idea to put EVERY EVERYTHING in a game... A game can be fun when it has flaws to discover... Perfect doesn't exist after all...

Offline O:\msg

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Re: Console & handheld debate
« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2012, 10:31:08 AM »
Just a quick observation, has anyone looked at the greatest ever games at: http://www.unikgamer.com/
It's all voted for by real gamers so it all goes on how much they enjoyed the games. Looking through the list, the first game originally on a handheld is pokemon red/blue/green down in 30th, and then uh.....there's not another in the top 50.

EDIT: Sorry my mistake, Pokemon gold/silver is at 42.


Okay, I can agree somewhat with that.
But at the other hand... Sometimes it's not such a good idea to put EVERY EVERYTHING in a game... A game can be fun when it has flaws to discover... Perfect doesn't exist after all...
Yes I agree, I just mean in general its usually better to have more horsepower, so devs can create the game they want to.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 10:37:16 AM by msg » »

 

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